- Name: Daniel B
- Creative: Commercial Filmmaker
- Location: Los Angeles, USA
Daniel B is an established film director and producer living in Los Angeles, CA. Despite making a decent living as a filmmaker, Daniel grew tired of the up and down project to project work that was robbing him of the time he wanted to pursue more creative endeavors. Add in the steadily rising cost of living in LA with a wife and two kids, the need to switch to a better system for his business had become mandatory. Daniel found out about Next Level Creators and was compelled to give it a try. Within months he was able to establish multiple recurring revenue clients, freeing up his time to work on the creative and artistic projects that he is passionate about.
Let's do it here. All right. Hello everyone. I have Daniel B with us today. He is a member of the next level creators community and he has some big things to talk about as far as the connections he has made in his mind on how he's been able to add consistent cash flows to his filmmaking business in his video production business by learning our model of marketing and how that's now allowing him the freedom to go and pursue his directing, his producing his film career, uh, because he's able to provide for his family and have that consistent cashflow. So we're, we're going to jump into that conversation here today and really get the beginning of it all and in all the way through to where he is today. Um, so daniel, thank you for being here. Thank you, Paul. That's awesome. So what got you into, and I always start with this, what got you into video creating filmmaking? What, what, how did the passion start? Um, well, I used to do it as a kid when I grew up. I grew up in, I was born in Minnesota and then I was two weeks old when we moved to Switzerland, so I grew up in Europe for 12 years and I'm Jewish. So at the age of 13, 12 or 13 we made alia. We went to Israel. So then I grew up in Israel for a little bit and the whole way. I always loved grabbing my uncle's a video camera and just shooting little crazy little videos with my friends, pranking people, make them a short round. So that was all well and good. I came back to the states on my own when I was 16, got into a lot of trouble and went back to Israel to join the Israeli special forces and kind of be, you know, get my, get my mindset straight. So I became a soldier for three years and then after the military was very disciplined and knew that if I could set my mind to something that I could definitely achieve it. And then I just kind of realized that academically I'd always. I'm not struggled with the grades but struggled with the structure, so I knew I couldn't do school. Like I knew I couldn't go to school for four, six, eight years or whatever had to be entrepreneurial, had to be hands on and a friend of mine in Switzerland who I grew up with, his father owned the production company. So the idea came up after the military to just maybe go try it on for size and see if I, you know, felt like it kind of felt good because they used to do videos as a kid and the glove fit. I was completely in love with it. He taught me how to cut on final cut and my first, I think three months there, I edited two episodes, two seasons of a talk show, a German talk show, and then we started doing music videos and I just started shooting and I started realizing, oh, this is a lot of fun. Switzerland has 7 million people, so the market's pretty small. The next logical step was the US. So then I went back to Minnesota, hooked up with my long lost love, which is a story for a different day and a dragged her ass down to California, so 10 to 11 or so years now in La and steadily, steadily building the network projects, just keeping, keep getting bigger and better and I'm just gonna stay on that path. The dream here, moving through, he got into video, film, love, passion was their big thing, Hollywood life, bringing her over kids. All that happening. And the dream with film is to be indirect incorrectly. He want to create movies and you want to be doing that. Yeah. And I have a long the way fallen in love with producing as well. I've actually done a lot more producing, directing and I liked them both, but definitely that childhood dream of directing big movies is still at the back of my head and that's still where I'm, I'm heading on it, starting to look like, you know, if all goes well, it's not that far away. So that's wonderful. Love hearing that. And so of course this is, this is your dream. You've been doing this for a long time, right? And when did you see next level creators and what were the challenges you were facing that made you pay attention? So recently, uh, a lot of, a lot of things changed in the last, uh, three years. There came a time after about, you know, eight or nine years in la where my wife started feeling like, okay, well, you know, how long are we going to do this before we seal the deal, get married, we weren't married at the time and, and you know, I have kids and all that. And the whole thought process of stability and stuff came in and, you know, unplanned first pregnancy which were overjoyed for now my eyes are little daughter is amazing, was great. But being in the industry you don't make a lot of money. You work long hours. You might feel like you're making a lot of money because somebody is throwing, you know, 10, 15, 20 grand at you for something. But then you realize that project drags on for six months and you're like, hmm, I'm making five bucks an hour. So it became a bit of a weird struggle between family life work, fulfilling my dreams and keeping the wife happy and keeping my, you know, I'm only happy with my wife's happy. It really, you know, you're about to get married to Miranda and you know that like if she was miserable all day long, that wouldn't do anybody any favors. No, no I wouldn't. I wouldn't be doing what I was doing if that were the case. I agree with you there. And the marriage happened now. Oh congrats man. Welcome to the next chapter. Thank you. Yeah. So, so we went through some hardships and you know, I, I, I was making enough money to keep up. La is pretty expensive and I wasn't able to, um, I wanted her to stay at home so that definitely made sure that she didn't have to work anymore. And then I ended up renting actually a second house in Wisconsin and it put her there because her family's there and I was flying back and forth. So I was renting two houses, got cost effective. My efficiency went down because I'd spend a week in Wisconsin not working basically, and then three weeks here and it takes you a week to just get back into things. Efficiency went down. I'm really weird, difficult times. And then uh, on one fateful day that I went there to visit her, she called me a few weeks later or a month later and crying and said that she was pregnant again. Um, and it was already tough enough. And then we found out that she was pregnant with twins. So like within two years we had three kids and I literally had to, I had to change something now because it's one thing if it's just me and her because we were always like, oh, it's okay. Ben. Ben's gonna make it. I don't care if you live in a shoe box. Like it's when you have little ones, it's like, no, they need to go to the best Jewish school they need. We need to be parts of the best, like Jewish temple, like we need all the best stuff. Suddenly are like, my kids were little angels, so you need money for that. Especially in La, um, so I started a business that kind of was a win win for me where I started, I produced, um, uh, acting real scenes for, for, for actors that wanted to break into the industry that didn't have any materials, so they would come to me, I would shoot a really cinematic, well written, well directed scene for them for a decent price. And uh, and I saw that that's something consistent that's a fringe business I can do in La because there's a lot of actors here. It satisfied, satisfies my need of wanting to grow as a director. It satisfies my potential financial instability. Um, but I, I can only get it so far. I had a google campaign I'm at, no matter how much money I put into it, it just, it wouldn't. There's so many. So many search results. Yeah. So you can put five grand a month in and nothing would change. Um, it would only go to like 500. And that's nice. Like we'd get one or two clicks, you know, leads a day and we'd close one every other week and you'd like to real. So Jack the price up, so I knew I could make like maybe three grand them on top of this just to know that maybe like part of my rent's paid for it, but it's such a cool business that I thought like, well, you know, there has to be something like how else do I, you know, and then I started thinking about marketing and all the, you know, like you say you get torn in all these different directions and what's the best platform? Instagram, facebook, you know, linkedin analogy right now, see a casting sites, you know, strategic partnerships and again, you should probably still think that way. But like what was the quickest thing I can do? And then miraculously I just see a facebook post and I don't use facebook. I'm never on facebook. Um, but I was for some reasons. So I think somebody sent me a link or whatever. Uh, and I was just, you know, once you get on facebook, you do this, you know, you just get stuck for like an hour or two. And, uh, and then this little thing where the headline was, I don't even remember the headline, but I remember the first sentence was like, picture this, you wake up in the morning, there's three new leads all waiting to work with you. I'm thinking, Oh shit, but whatever. I'll read it. I'm glad I read it, man. It made sense and this is what you teach. Uh, and it's funny because somebody who's gone through such a rigorous, uh, army training that learns the power of Focus, uh, couldn't figure that out in the business world where it's all about focus and actually the, and to me personally, because I can focus on many things at the same time. It's very difficult and time consuming, but it's not necessarily just about focusing on that one thing. But whatever you do choose to decide to go for, like, just put it all, you know, put all your attention to that, learn everything about it, get all the. I bought the next to me, but the, uh, the book, the $300 book, breakthrough advertising, go all in and understand, uh, you know, I realized I don't know enough about marketing basically is what I'm getting at. And then it started becoming evident. All these people that were telling me in the past, oh, it's all marketing, it's all marketing. And I was like, yeah, it's all marketing. I'm a great videographer, I'm a great director, I need marketing. And I'm sitting there with like my website up. It's like we provide production services for everybody. We do all this stuff. We can do anything with the video. So it is ridiculous really, now that I think about it, it is like one of those things where you don't need much. You just need a couple of clarifying sentences and your whole perspective just like, oh, it makes so much sense. So that was it. I saw that I, I scheduled it, I was a bit, um, just because I am, I was a bit skeptical, skeptical and disrespectful with the survey because I was like, hi, where do I see my life? And I get the point of the questions now, like it was just one of those things where like, oh, she's okay, I can look. I did say I did sales for a long time, a car sales and stuff, so I knew this was a sales thing and uh, I went into a defensive. But the thing that kept me tethered to the phone was that first message, which is where you put your importance, not even necessarily the message, but the language that you use. So that I knew that whoever it was that was writing this, even though you weren't the person I was talking to, whoever wrote this or came up with this ad, has an understanding of the struggles of the videography business, the film business like you, you understand that that's a problem. And you identified it and you came up with a solution for it. And I've, I, I knew the problem, I never fully identified it and I didn't bother coming up with a solution. I just thought, well that's just the struggle of being in the business. It's just the way it is. That's just the way it is. And what a dumb mindset, like it's never the way it is if something isn't right, fix it. And this is where most of the value ultimately still comes from. I honestly still have a couple of modules that I have left to, to watch. I've been through most of the course, most of it a couple of times because I've set up three campaigns now. I'm two for a lawyer and one for myself, for the, for the reels. Um, and the, I mean, I think the biggest value is the fact that it's the entire system. Everything you need, everything you need. It's not, hey, for websites, go check out this for, you know, a facebook here by this other course. Or it's not just a theory, it's a, it's a, you could know nothing about anything. And just, um, even if you didn't have the videos, you could do a lot of it. The videos help a lot, but you could do a lot just even with the documents that you prepared. And that's where I saw the value, to be honest with you. John told me the price, uh, and I miss her. I thought he said seven to $800 and I immediately said done and then he said, no, well, you know what I meant, but I didn't care really at that point. Like I, you know, I didn't necessarily have the money in the bank, but it was such a, it was so clear to me that the first, when I first came down here I had to buy an $8,000 camera because nobody would hire me to shoot anything if I didn't have a camera. Yeah. So I'm thinking like, you know, how much money I probably dropped to $100,000 in production gear over the last 10 years or so. More. Yeah. And then this is what I always like to do too. It's like, well how much has each camera produce for you in terms of return on investment? Not as much as the course down the line, of course. But here's the thing, like if you invested in. I always say this, you have to have the camera or do you need it because you can only shoot, but if you invested in the training on how to market and get clients, then you got the camera. You're. It's a reverse psychology thing, but it happens way faster. You ended up getting clients and you can rent camera equipment for the first couple of gigs if you need to. You can borrow it from your friends because every filmmaker has friends with cameras. We can bring them with you and then all of a sudden you're getting clients. You're making money and then you start getting the in investing in the camera equipment as you're accumulating cash flows. I to what you're saying there because it didn't seem like, um, a lot of guys, including myself, put the wagon before the horse and they focus really heavily on the craft, which is good to know, but hardly on the marketing and they spend a good decade or more in borderline poverty or at least just waiting for a miracle to happen or another job to come in. Whereas what you're saying is going to get you to the same place much faster because you're going to have so many clients. Every. I was blown away once the cinematographer, I think five, seven or eight years ago, probably already, that I worked with on a short film. His gaffer told me that this guy, uh, that they've already. I was like, it was like July and the guy told me we've already done 40 projects with him by July and I'm like, who is even working that much? How can you be a DP and have 40 projects over the years? Only halfway it over. Like I had like maybe four projects that year, you know, like, well somebody who's willing to pay me five grand now, great. That's going to cover my mother, you know? No Man, you should be having two, three jobs a week or at least something that pays you recurring. So, uh, yeah, you, you, you, you might as well focus on the marketing first because it's much easier to learn. I mean with the course. Yeah. And so, and so for you, you got in, you saw everything, essentially you saw, well, here's how I can create the videos that are going to bring people to me. Here's how, here's the template that I can download and upload. So that way I can put my video on my website and get viewers to it. Here's how to create the ads and then upload them and screen sharing on how to put it on. So you saw everything from start to finish. You got in there, you did it, you've got it three times now. What have the results been for yourself? Because you've created a campaign for your demo reel business and for your clients in the law area? Well, it's funny a case for you, because I'm with the demo reels. I did a facebook thing because I, I just, I just realized, well that's, you know, after doing the course I realized that's the way to market to actors. It needs to be display advertising. I'm running the Google campaign at the same time because why stop it if it's working, but I had to, uh, I started, I started, uh, the process of a facebook campaign with the demo reels. Uh, and I had to turn it off. We weren't keeping up like many people, too many people, too many phone calls to make too many discovery calls. I was getting like 10, 15 leads in every day. Uh, which for me it was like if I, I thought I was going to get one or two more. Uh, so now I've actually spent the last few months I'm working out contracts and stuff with my assistant Melissa. Um, she really loves that business. We work together on other projects, but so I brought in an additional part time assistant to handle my other stuff. And Melissa is almost just handling the reels entirely now. I couldn't do this with anybody else. She's very loyal. So I don't recommend anybody do this because the conversation you and I said, well, what's to stop somebody from doing it themselves? Nothing. That's why I trust Melissa. She won't because she doesn't think that way. She doesn't have those aspirations, she just wants a consistent salary and she wants to be, you know, doing product. So I kind of handed off the busy work to Melissa and now I'm in the process of finding a sales rep, which is actually harder than I thought, um, to find a reliable person that can do that. The discovery calls with that many people every day. And the beauty of doing this with the demo real businesses because about six months ago or so, right before I started the course, uh, I didn't know if I even wanted to continue it and we had a couple of those conversations and I kind of, I still feel about it that way. I feel like if it goes away, whatever, it's cool to have the additional income, but it's not a business I feel very passionately about. So it gives me room to experiment and that's what I'm doing. So I'm just finding that last piece of the puzzle. And I had. Then I'll have a sales rep in place. Uh, Melissa handling production and I have another person handling the postproduction and then I'm going to open up the floodgates and uh, I think I can scale that business to a three, $400,000 business. Um, but it will cap just like you say in week eight and that's what you're doing the next, uh, the next course, the next level. And that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put together a course like this for actors. Yeah. And so I can't wait to, to learn about that of course, but, but yeah, so I honestly don't remember. Oh, you were asking about how it's, how it's worked for me. So there, for the actors it worked really well. Why? Because it was easy for me to get in these people's heads. I've been working with actors for a year, so I have very prominent acting coaches are as personal friends that I can just call and ask about psychology of actors. So the campaign was very easy for me to do. Um, and then I did it for a lawyer as well, a criminal defense lawyer and that took significantly more research. But it's a, it's a, it's a good campaign, um, you know, he wanted to focus on sex crime cases and eventually Duis, which is the one we just launched and the sex crime cases took a couple of weeks for me to research and really figure out why you would think it's a simple as, well, I don't want to lose my family, which is kind of true, but there's more there because there's all that stigma and shame and family dynamics sometimes. It's actually not the person themselves looking for a lawyer. It's their loved one. So, you know, you might need to message it more for like a wife or a brother or father that's dealing with a son and in custody. So we're still massaging that. But a lesson number two, uh, I think what I'll, I'll arrive at at the end of this, this a testimonial call, is that the things you say, they're researched and, and, and they have a reason behind them. A don't take this the wrong way. It's easy to perceive you as a young, ambitious guy who kind of discovered a thing and you know, just puts it out there, but there might be more, but it is researched like you really do the work and you did it yourself. You're not just, you didn't hear something through the grapevine and just regurgitate it and that's the value of the course and a lot of people think they know what they're talking about. But for somebody who's been in the industry for a long time and I have mentors who have been, one of my biggest mentors is the music producer for dirty dancing back in the day. Like this guy is like desserts, like seventies. He's been in the industry forever. Another guy who's a mentor of mine is the producer for a mortal Kombat and look up platoon and terminator two and love those foodies. Yeah. So like, you know, I, I still find myself thinking that I know something when I talk to these guys and them telling me a piece of advice that's contrary to what I feel and then I still do it my way and I fuck it up. And then what they said resonates and I realized that's why and you're awfully wise for, for a guy your age and you've done the research, you do it right, you focused in and you actually did all the work and I'm one of the things that you said was the, uh, the, the, the knowing like the market research is, it's key or messaging is key to really stopping somebody in their tracks and pulling them in. And I'm noticing that like the, the, the, the ads for the demo reels are, they're coming in like nothing. Yep. Sex crimes, they come in but it's a bit more of a struggle and they're not exactly the perfect kinds of leads yet. But we're getting there and uh, and the Duis is a mess because I did almost no research on that and I just kinda started it, which it's working. We're getting clicks but not that many phone calls, and I'm sorry I got sidetracked, but this is what I wanted to say with this, um, you recommend doing these campaigns for businesses that spend a certain amount, I mean like $15,000 a month in ad spend or like a million dollar revenue companies maybe, you know, ideally kind of who you would go for. People that are already advertising. Um, and I find, I see the value there. I spend an awful lot effort setting up campaigns for this lawyer. He's a great guy. Um, he's kind of, he's probably good at what he does, but, but I would find it hard to believe that the guy makes over 200 k, you know, and it's hard to keep the campaign profitable longterm, surprisingly because he can't sell. And even though I gave him tools, he's so preoccupied with cases, which of course you should, you should be in trial if you're a lawyer. Um, that only now I've convinced them to put somebody else on the phone, you know, and hopefully that'll change. But in terms of lead generation, I'm getting the Guy Thirty, 35 leads a month with pretty minimal advertising to brands, adspend the month. Um, and you should be converting a lot more the other google the Google leads, right? Yeah. It's, that's a process we worked through with all of our clients too. And that's why I always say like, don't expect your commercial campaign to be wildly profitable in the first few months. I'm going to make sure that we were going to tackle this really hard and go as, as, as fast as we can to break even and profitability. But there will be a timeframe in here when we're learning and I need. And this is why I mean a commercial campaign is the ultimate win win because it's a collaboration. And that's why in my calls and everything I do, I will disqualify people if they are not willing to put in work and collaborate with me because I know I'm destined to fail. Maybe add to that if they seem really, they're bad at responding. Even if they say they want to do it. This guy was all about it. And again, he is all about it. I'm just saying I could have gone with a guy who's a little bit more motivated and made more money quicker because even though you don't necessarily say to structure it this way per se in your course, the way I'm doing it, and maybe you do, so forgive me if I'm stealing your thunder, but the way I want to have a few clients as possible and make as much as I can on each one. That's what I say, exactly what I want to do. That's what I've done with my business, right? We maxed ourselves out at about five clients. We work with them. They're all still growing. We're growing with them and that's. I don't want more than that in terms of commercial campaigns. I'm very happy making a few six figures working with just five people. We're friends, we hang out, we talk together, we enjoy each other's company and that's a lot better than working project to project. Seeing someone for a week and then saying goodbye and maybe not seeing them again for a couple of years and then wondering why they don't call you back or whatever. It's just not, it's not a, this is better. And so I think you can also look at ways to grow within your clients by just, let's say with the lawyer I, I said let's start with, um, I shot three campaigns and we said let's launch one after the other, but I'm charging him with the separate management fee for each campaign. So you know, the sex crimes is a thousand bucks. Then we do the Dui, that's a thousand bucks. And I'll do a general of general criminal law campaign that's going to be a thousand bucks. So as soon as they become profitable, now I'm running three campaigns with the guy making three grand off. He's going to want to add white collar, he's going to want to add like as soon as understands the growth and he's set up a bit of the team. Um, I think I can get up to 10 slash 15 with this guy. And uh, you know, as his ad spend grows, we have enough of a relationship where I can say, hey, you know what, let's switch to a, a percentage of ad spend just for all of them, like once we get to maybe $50,000 a month and I'll just switch over to, maybe it will be worth it, but we'll see. We'll see what happens down the line. Um, and then I'm looking at one more. You know, what the best thing about this is knowing that I've set it up. Here's something really kind of bizarre, honest. I'm sorry to cut this short and Segue, but this is really the value of it for me as a person. Security is key and I've, I've gone my whole life thinking, you know, setting up little things where I know that if suddenly I hit a two month dry spell, I can always go shoot weddings. I can always go do this. I can always, like I have a number of things that I can keep in my back pocket that I know emergency mode, I can dig, I can go do construction to like whatever. I, I have a couple of things that I, you know, this is almost more for me, uh, the best tool in my back pocket for a dry spell because cost of living goes up. I have three children now. We live in a nice neighborhood. It's a gated community. It has hoa fees associated with it. It's, you know, it's safe when you pay a price for that and every month a lot of money comes out of my account. So all I really need to know is that I can, uh, I need to have a two month cushion roughly and just hit business is hard and I can get two or three commercial campaigns off the ground within that timeframe, uh, and balance myself out. I can take some money out of my line of credit if I have to, to bridge a gap or two, you know, a month or two. But I know that with this system, it's my fail safe as well. I'm running campaigns to keep myself fresh and updated about what's happening with social, with facebook and all the changes and all that and obviously still making money, monthly residual whatever management fees. But I know I can, I know I can do more if I have to. Yeah. One thing I'm very curious about because you're, you're someone who, you know, you're in this situation like many of our clients, they get into commercial campaigns for that exact reason as a fail safe because they want to pursue failed and they want to do directing. They want to create their own, um, you know, movies. And uh, as someone who's looking at this program as well, I mean, you're learning a ton about how, see how people in the world received things like ecology. How are you leveraging that and going to be leveraging that in the film side of things moving forward. Because now you know about some things, very few filmmakers or directors. No, which is social media distribution or massive. I mean, we can get millions of people to see your videos. And your commercials for your videos for a very small amount of money. Today. I am, uh, there's two projects. I'm working on a documentary. I have a documentary that's been pretty successful, uh, in educational. I've toured with it too to campuses and universities and stuff because it deals with a very specific thing. Uh, and now we've got a sales company for Europe and they're gonna deal with that. But we said if, you know, if, if we can't find the sales company to pick it up in the US or go on Netflix, maybe we'll start doing social media thing for it. Um, and I already know that I'm working on two features. One with a producer that just hired me as a director, which is a bigger project hopefully that will get funded. And, and the other one's my own, uh, which I already have. Maybe 100 k raised for. But I'm still looking for some more money. But if we can't raise any more money, I'm just going to do it for that. And that movie, he's going to be a perfect Guinea pig for self distribution. There we go. I have a friend, a good friend of mine's of bloggers, name's Nolan, I'm cruel. He's a Canadian, a micro budget film maker. Blogger is very good traffic to his website. She made a, a micro budget I think $15,000 movie last year and through properly marketing it on facebook, uh, and, and his blog, of course he had that that helps, you know, 300,000 people a month visiting your blog helps. But I have a viral video two that's pulling, you know, a lot of views everyday that's, that's got millions of youtube already. So I was thinking about, you know, you can, you can attach something to the end of that video too, just for more traffic going to there. But he did a facebook thing self distributed at. Got It on Itunes, preorder, you put it on, preorder, marketed the shit out of it and got so many hits on that that it went into like the best sellers list. Yeah. Trending and now it's just kind of caught fire. And the movie hasn't even been released yet and he's made his budget back yet. So that's 100 percent something I'm going to try doing because the more middlemen you can cut out the better. And I mean Columbia phones are coming out straight on Netflix now. So the whole theatrical thing, I was gonna I was to, so this is going to be a part of virgin poor point now, next level creators is a distribution of your own films. Um, so I'm excited to share that and part of that and let's use me as a Guinea pig man because I, I could do it on, I have another movie we produced in 2016 which was just under a million. I'm just an executive producer on it, but I'm failing to it. It was kind of a festival driven thing and uh, we're just failing to sell it. So if this last potential negotiation doesn't go through, we might, you know, that could be something that we can try as on the creative community just to see, you know, use it as a, use it as a test thing. You know, there's, there's lots of different ways to expand. I was just curious how you were thinking in those lines because I, I, um, I've seen a lot of people starting to leverage our information to do that and leverage commercial campaigns to get the word out there. Of course make a recurring income for themselves, give themselves that financial security. But the good thing is like when you think about your time today, Daniel, I mean, you've got time. You're, you're putting time into directing, you're putting time into producing and you also have the financial security going on where you've got the demo business and commercial campaigns with a lawyer. So you've got multiple streams of income, right? I'm sorry, now I'm adding A. I just, I just, everywhere I go I see my wife beats me up because I came back, I bought a, I bought a couple of suits because I have, I go to a lot of events. Um, so I lost $900 suit or whatever and I was in there getting fitted and it, you know, having a tailored and everything. And, and the guy asked me how I found him and I was like, you know what, I, I didn't, I was going to go to the guy over here in the mall and then he didn't have anything in my size. So I think I saw your shop and then we, we started talking there. That's what I'm talking about. Like the guy now is like how the need for marketing and stuff and that's the beauty of this program. I have time to focus on films and stuff. Even if I'm bleeding money right now and I know I am because my wife honor the new bedroom and you know, there's all kinds of stuff that I was spending money on. It's okay because even when I go buy a suit now and potentially just made a client, that guy, I have to push him away. I have to tell him that I'm not taking any clients just from our conversation and the knowledge that I've acquired from I'm just regurgitating what you're teaching us. And the guy's like, please help me. Um, my, my sister works for Rothchild Bank in Switzerland in Zurich. I just got off the phone with them the other day and that's what I'm going to do. Like obviously when Rochelle Bank wants to work with you, I'm going to present them something because my second client, other than my. I'm a demo reels. It's a different niche. I was reluctant, but I figured I just need to target high value individuals to sign up with rod child. It can't be that difficult. I know enough wealthy people that I can ask them what they look for and private banking. Um, you know, how to do the research now so that if the thing, as long as you're willing to put in the time to do the research and you're willing to go through next level creators and really get the knowledge and get the templates. I mean, the only way to fail, and I tell people all the time is if you don't do the work, do the work. You will fail. But if you do the work, you won't fail. As I can see how people, you know, you posted that thing with your. I'm on facebook the other day about people saying scam and stuff. On reddit a, if anybody did this course like to go as far as, I mean it's obvious that people just didn't do it like they and, and I think that the, the blockage there is that your pricing kind of leaked out and now people are kind of talking about it. None of them are clients. Exactly. Because you wouldn't say that if you saw, look, just the, just, just the knowledge I learned final cut and premiere and after effects and Photoshop and uh, you know, I learned all kinds of at one point html and stuff and I know how hard it is to go find like the right software to do something. Um, and then even if you find the platform three months down the line, you find out that there's a better platform that would be better fit for what you're doing. So even just telling us active campaign schedule once a Zapier or Zapier, whatever, and call rail, it just adds value right there because that's, that's two days of five days. However long of researching and trying different things. And going callrail is, there's such specific tools that I, I don't even know if I would know to go look for something like that, like call rattler Zapier I wouldn't even know to look. I wouldn't even know how to search for that. I would just have this problem that this isn't communicating with that and I would just be frustrated with it. Even just the technical, here are the tools and this is how you set them up. That's like two weeks of work right there of just research or maybe even more. And then I'm thinking, well two weeks of work for me, that's, that's more than five grand right there. Like you just saved me, you know, my time's more valuable than whatever you offer the course and if you're going to teach me just that. Like even just that would have been enough or you know. So I'm sure there's people that don't want to. I, I would be surprised if anybody disagreed with what I'm saying, but everybody can find some really valuable pieces and it, it, it's an adaptable course of your. If you have half a brain, like you don't have to necessarily follow it, the teeth you can and you will make money or you can also just say, you know what, I don't really want to have clients, but I want to apply the marketing principles to my own business. And you did both. Yeah. Worked both it because they were supposedly it actually works better for your own business because you already know the niche and you're the one doing it, so you're more committed. Yeah, yeah. Well we're hitting about an hour at this point. Close to 45 minutes or so, and I know we want to talk a little ad-words here after this and get you squared away with some stuff. So I really appreciate you taking the time just to share your experience of course. And uh, um, tell me the good, the bad and what's happened for you. Um, so thank you for that. Any last words that you would say to someone who's on the fence who is in your situation? They came across next level creators and maybe they're in that mindset where they're skeptical. Maybe they're in that mindset where they're not really valuing their time properly. How would you communicate to you before you joined and what would you say to yourself? I would say if you are a, if you're serious about. I'd say the same thing I say to my actors because I charge a pretty penny for the real. Like the guy just dropped like six grand for, for, for two scene, three scenes the other day. Um, but it's a fricking war. Seem like they're soldiers. They're shooting their stuff blowing up. Like it's cool. Uh, what I'm saying is if you're serious about being in this industry and you're committed to this being your business, you should do it because you know, five grand if you are serious. This just isn't that much money in, in any, you know, and, or whatever the price is. Even if it was, yeah, 10 grand would be a harder sell and there comes a line I think, where, where you feel like, well maybe it's getting to the point where doing the research myself, which would be more beneficial than spending the money. I don't necessarily see that, but let's, let me start over. You have a better soundbite. Basically what I would say is if you're serious, go for it. If you know that you can stay committed and follow through and go through all the steps and you, you're not going to just get frustrated when a problem comes along that you can't figure out and leave. Um, you're probably gonna fail if you, if you just get frustrated easily and you don't ask for help. But the beauty about the thing is that it's not just the course, you're accessible, you respond to emails and you also respond to the community and you have the community. And I even, uh, Carlos and uh, Steve, uh, two guys from the community that live in La, we've been meeting occasionally at who goes here in la. I'm just talking about, you know, how it's going for each other. So you, I'm a big fan of community. I am a part of a temple community. I'm part of some entertainment communities. Um, and that's almost the main reason you should join because you're not alone when you're doing it. You get the course, you get the information, you get the, you know, the knowledge on how to do it, um, you get encouraged to adapt it to your personal lifestyle. You're not being forced into anything different. You don't have to change your whole life. And uh, you basically get the guy behind the soft, the program to tell you what you're doing wrong and how to fix it. So how could you go wrong? It does, unless facebook and google disappears, but this is the beauty of it to facebook can go away. You still apply the same principles to whatever the next big display advertising network is. You just need to figure out how their algorithms work. It'll be a little bit frustrated, but I'm sure next level seven, figure that out. You're part of the group. So, um, if you don't want to make consistent money and you're afraid of a little bit of work, this isn't for you. Go buy a $20 bullshit class. And if you want to build a business and build a family and have freedom, go for it. I greatly appreciate it. Daniel. Thank you very much. Alright, so we'll go ahead and we'll wrap it up there and let's, uh, and I really appreciate that was a lot of fun. That was good. It was good. Thanks man.